152 | DALIBOR PULKERT | HOW TO BRING INNOVATION TO A SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION

I know companies where they successfully and regularly introduce innovation into the daily life of the company. Because they take it seriously. I've had some of them in front of the microphone. I'm looking for more. Because they deserve our maximum support and emulation.

I know companies where innovation is all talk. But louder. They come up with workshops, brainstorm innovation teams, etc. The result is a big zero. Talking about innovation doesn't get you the kinks out.

And then there's a bunch of companies that would like to and maybe just don't know how. Or they feel they don't have the right team to innovate. Yet they want to. I mean, they really want to. For that kind of "maybe someday"...

Well, that's who this episode of Ignition is for. I have invited a guest who knows as much about innovation, its incubation and execution as few people. Dalibor Pulkert has set up a company for innovation, aptly named Outboxers s.r.o. Today, as its CEO, he helps other companies turn innovative ideas into reality. So I asked him in the studio...

🔸 Why do companies outsource innovation?

🔸 Are we a nation of innovators and can we sell ourselves?

🔸 What is innovation and how to ensure its success?

🔸 What if I have no one in my company and I really want to innovate?

🔸 What to expect from a new book?

HOW TO SUCCESSFULLY BRING INNOVATION TO COMPLETION (INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT)

Guest introduction

Martin Hurych

Hello. I'm Martin Hurych and this is another Ignition. If you liked anything on Zážeh, some episode, some guest, some idea, please like or subscribe. You'll help me get through the social networking algorithms and you won't miss another episode. We're both gonna make sure there are even more great guests like tonight's guest on The Ignition. Today's topic is innovation, entrepreneurship in the broadest sense and how to foster it in us Czechs. For this I have invited the co-founder and current head of Outboxers, author of the book 30 Hours and well-known promoter of innovation and entrepreneurship, Dalibor Pulkert.

Dalibor Pulkert

Thank you for inviting me and for the beautiful introduction.

What drives him to keep running against the wall?

Martin Hurych

What made you do it in the first place? We've known each other for a long time and it always seems to me that you are a tireless enthusiast who often runs against the wall but never gives up. What's behind that?

Dalibor Pulkert

I'm very fond of the line from Mark Twain, who said that my two best days in life were when I was born, which is why I'm here, and when I found out why. I when I found out my why, which is to foster entrepreneurship and my inner wellspring of motivation, that was a really wonderful feeling. When you find that when you run up against that wall and it still makes sense and you run again, that's the why. I've found an inner spring that gives me strength so that when I fall, stumble, I get back up again and I always come back to it.

What was the most important lesson he learned?

Martin Hurych

I'm going to use the donkey's bridge for this to a thing I found in the preparation we did together before we met here. You describe yourself as a lessons learned guy. What's the most important lesson you've learned so far running against the wall?

Dalibor Pulkert

It's been awfully nice for me lately to rely on my intuition. I'm the kind of person who's overly circumspect. Sometimes that over-analysis can end up paralyzing me, actually drowning me in it, and I take too long to make a decision. That intuition helps tremendously. I think it's about having an inner voice and casting all that stuff around to hear that intuition that gives me strength.

Martin Hurych

So from Dalibor the analyst we will have Dalibor the ezo?

Dalibor Pulkert

I don't think so. I think it's in the middle. Why would I throw away a strength that I have?but in order not to let my strengths burn me down, I'm discovering that it's great to listen to my inner voice and it will help me be decisive.

What do they do in Outboxers?

Martin Hurych

We saw each other in front of the microphone and the camera some ±2 years ago, you were here then as part of another project. Today I mentioned that you are the co-founder and current head of the Outboxers. Come tell us what you're actually doing.

Dalibor Pulkert

I'll just add, at the time we were talking about StartupBox, which is a non-profit that I co-founded, which was already running in parallel with Outboxers. It's a thing that we were trying to promote entrepreneurship, we got money through Google and it's still free on startupbox.cz if anyone interested and considering starting his own business. Outboxers I always present in two

sentences. Give us units of months and we'll start a new business and new money for you, or give us units of weeks and we'll check if the idea makes sense. It stands and falls on a standard methodology that has been proven over the years. We didn't reinvent the wheel here, but when two people do the same thing, it's not the same thing. It's very much based on whether you can own the idea and start breathing for it and finding that way to make that idea exist, work, make money and fit into the strategy of the company that's commissioning it. So Outboxers is a startup studio, an innovation lab where we validate ideas to see whether or not it makes sense to put more energy into them,

of money and time.

Why do companies outsource innovation?

Martin Hurych

I would believe that a lot of people think that's a competency that you have to have within the company. What are you guys leading something that should strategically take the company somewhere else, outsource it to you?

Dalibor Pulkert

I would also see it as strategically important, as long as it fits into the strategicof that portfolio. It may be that a person says he loves wine, so he starts a wine bar, but he's really a builder, so it's no longer strategic for his company. That was a very borderline case, but the reason is simple. There are three things that need to be met. One, I don't have the leader to own it and pull it off. I, as the owner, boss, or manager who is pulling the company somewhere, am busy enough keeping the company on track, pushing it somewhere, but at the same time, there's always this gnawing desire to try new things. So I'm either not going to try them or I'm going to find somebody on the inside and if I don't have somebody on the inside and I don't want to lose that market, I'm going to find somebody on the outside. I'm that third option, but it's only when it's not fulfilled that I don't have the time as a leader, a driver, or I don't have someone in the company that has the freedom, the capacity, and the ability to own the idea. LongI agree with the answer, it is better to do it inside, but unfortunately it is often not possible.

What options exist for outsourcing?

Martin Hurych

I guess you don't have an easy life then, because if I don't have anyone on the inside who can at least own it to the level that I don't have the capacity, but I do own it, isn't that fighting windmills?

Dalibor Pulkert

There are two ways to do this. You identify beautifully the problem that's obviously there. The first is you take it out completely sideways, the skunkworks that Google came up with. You create an external startup that you own, you're an investor, and you know you have a mandate to influence that startup's strategy so that it doesn't run away from your coru strategy. You run fast, you build it and then there's a problem sometime in units of years when you want to suck it back in because it has a different culture, a different leader. It's the same as when a corporation acquires a startup, there's some cultural clash and you need to deal with it. It's coming, it hurts, but it's coming.

The other thing is more practical, which I also prefer after all these years of dealing with innovation with all the fuck-ups we've gone through, to keep it in the middle. Now that I don't have a leader, I outsource it to Dalibor for example, he'll handle it, but his job is to hand it back to me in units of months to years, even with a stalker. So together we are looking for that leader either internally or we headhunt him from outside, but that person is hired straight in, he joins the company. He's not joining a separate startup, he's joining an internal startup or an internal innovation initiative and my job is to hand it off to him and we've called it that from the beginning. It's cheaper for the client and the people that they already have internally, but they're not the main drivers, they're able to help that terribly in that expertise.

Martin Hurych

So you've got political cover on the inside and other people on the inside have time to get used to the fact that something is coming.

Dalibor Pulkert

I don't know if I would say political, I would use the word mandate. This is what we want here, it's our baby, support it, because the minute you put it out there, it's way over the horizon, over the hill. These people don't see that there's this startup, they may have heard something, but they don't have any detail, they don't know what's going on. They have no engagement with the fact that something is going to come along at some point and we're going to want to get it in. It's a little bit slower, but it's the best way to build that innovation so far in my experience.

Martin Hurych

You've made it your personal mission to promote entrepreneurship. As part of that, you're an incredible author of various materials to help myself validate an idea, whether I'm a solo entrepreneur or some solo island of positive deviance within a larger group of people.

Dalibor Pulkert

I like the word intrapreneur. Intra means inside andentrepreneur means entrepreneur. It's not my word, it's a classic western word, but it's the kind of innovator who has an idea and is willing to go for it.

Are we a nation of innovators and can we sell ourselves?

Martin Hurych

I was going to mention that years and years ago you published what I would perhaps amateurishly call an innovation manual, innovation maps. Today, you've taken that idea and turned it into a book, which is published by my favorite publisher, Melville, called 30 Hours. On the one hand, people say we're a nation of a bunch of smart people, and on the other hand, an equal number of people say we can't sell ourselves and we don't really want to innovate. Do you feel it's getting better?

Dalibor Pulkert

I have. I think we want to innovate, but sometimes we stumble and maybe give up too much. It's one thing too soon and the other thing is it's about having some confidence and some assurance that we're going in the right direction, which is the foundation, the building block of being able to sell yourself. When I'm confident, when I feel my self-worth, it's easier to sell myself than when I'm floundering and unsure. But I'm confident that it gets better. The younger generation is great at it in terms of wanting to, but sometimes they lack that discipline again.

What to expect from the new book?

Martin Hurych

The book will help me with which part of this equation, the self-confidence that the younger generation obviously lacks, some consistency, or the idea itself?

Dalibor Pulkert

I created it as an all in one. If you have anyone around you, a friend who keeps telling you in the pub that they want to start something or someone in your company who you feel has the appetite to do something new, this will help you with three basic things. One, understand and identify your intrinsic motivation because that's what it stands and falls on. The moment it comes to the heavy waters and it comes to the heavy waters, that's where the bread is broken, whether I can hold on or not. So the first part of the book is about motivation, finding your own inner motivation, that inner wellspring that will then guide you through it.

The second part is about targeting it, what is the idea, where do I find it, how do I know it's the right one internally. There are some things that are repeated quite often in Outboxers and StartupBox, and that is that somebody has always wanted to do a business but they don't have the right idea yet. We've heard that really many times and even a lot of people who are employees at big companies will tell you that over a beer. So the next part of the book is dedicated to that idea, how to find it, how to identify it, how to go for it.

The third and most comprehensive part of the book is about a practical guide on how to verify this. I've already got the motivation, I've already got the idea, so I've got to run out and do it, because it's not going to happen on its own. I tried to build it as practically as I could. The book should be all you need to do that right now. It's written like a workbook that you write in, scribble in, tear pages out of. The idea is that when y o u validate the idea, at the end of the book there's a salad. At the same time, I put in practical examples from life, something that I've lived myself, so that it's also fun to read. In the actual

The result is 42 to-dos, tasks that I have to do to figure out if the market indication is telling me I have the green light. At the same time, there are some 18 practical tools that I fill out, straighten out my thoughts, and there's a central flowchart that guides me through it. To take away even the last fears that come with it, that there's no time or space to do this, I've conceptually built it to 30 hours, which is an hour a day for 30 days. In 30 hours, you should come to an answer as to whether or not it's a good idea to go all in. If a person really desires to run a business, if they desire to start something even inside the company and they're not able to set aside an hour a day, they don't want it enough.

Martin Hurych

If you say 42 to-do's to someone today, no one has time for that, but you're right that if I don't delete an hour of Facebook a day from my day, I don't want the business enough.

Dalibor Pulkert

It's also a bit about removing some self-censorship and being able to follow your own dream. The book should also separate the wheat from the chaff a little bit, because there's a difference between a hobby and some kind of dreaming, when I enjoy the dreaming and when I really want to do the dreaming. The book is supposed to help separate that and maybe not lie to myself. I've been writing and creating it for over 4 years, it's practical stuff that I've iterated, improved, removed, added to. With every series of incubations that I went through, an idea that we did in some way, I cut it back again, so it's kind of the lowest common divider. I'm not saying it's perfect, that would sound smug and overconfident, but it's really the lowest common divisor for any type of business in the beginning because it revolves ultimately around the customer. So even if somebody says they're starting a microbrewery or something in the healthcare industry, they would that should still be enough. Only then do the scissors open, when the type and domain of the business determines how to work with it further. I agree that there is no one-size-fits-all guide to the business as a whole, that would be naive and a big lie, but for that very beginning and validation of that first idea, that secret source exists and here it is.

Where do the book ideas diverge from the book's theories?

Martin Hurych

Where does the validation of the book idea diverge from the book?

Dalibor Pulkert

Nice question, I'll try to answer in an arch way so I don't completely avoid you with this. I believe that innovation and thinking innovatively is like you have a big toolbox and now you go and you need a pair of chisels, here you need a screwdriver and you use them as you need them. The tools that I use are in the high dozens, well over a hundred, and there are 18 of them.

I have a lot of extra things that aren't here because I don't feel like they are needed, and some things that I know I have lined up I haven't used because I may have skipped them. So it's kind of like when you're learning to ride a bike and you have those auxiliary wheels on the back. The goal is to catch your balance, and those wheels help you do that, and once you catch your balance, you don't need them anymore. The book is the training wheels, but that doesn't mean you have to do the whole thing, you can skip a bit. I'm leaving my own tracks because I believe I can ride a bike.

Why didn't Melvil want to release it?

Martin Hurych

What important things have we forgotten to say about the book before we move on?

Dalibor Pulkert

Melvil wouldn't even give it to me. I love Melvil, I see them as the Oxford of Czech publishers. About 2 years ago I called them and told Tomas Baránek that I had this concept, I was approaching the manuscript stage, I described it nicely to him and he rejected me outright. There was a small market for it, it didn't fit into their editorial schedule, they publish one book a year, and he just blew me off. But I believed the book was good, I had a vision, and maybe here I relied a lot on that intuition, so I decided to self-publish. So I self-published it, and you were at the launch, which I thank you for.

It's not a standard text book, it's very graphic, a lot of pencil work inside, so it was time consuming and after 7 months of typesetting, graphics, I had the first vPDF version. So I sent it to Thomas again, called him and said I finally decided to self-publish it, but I'd love some feedback and if they'd come to the book launch. He called me 2 days later and said it was absolutely great and that we had to publish it together. Sometimes that tenacity leads to success. More and more I'm finding that when I hear "no" it's a "not yet" for me. That "yet" is an awfully magical word, I absolutely love how powerful it is, so you have "please", "thank you" and "yet". So I said, "not yet," and that's where the intuition kicked in.

What is innovation and how to ensure its success?

Martin Hurych

Innovation is a topic that more and more people are talking about publicly, trying to promote, but on the other hand there are still a lot of people who say that innovation is not for them, that it is for big companies. I'mNow I don't want to talk about the fact that innovation is more about mind-set and some kind of permanent improvement, I want to talk about something that I have unfortunately experienced in corporations and larger companies. Now I'm wants us to innovate, we're going to do it, but we're actually hoping it doesn't happen. What about it?

Dalibor Pulkert

One of the problems I see, and I always have to adjust the terminology, is that for some people, innovation is that the husband has started putting the cutting board down. Is that an innovation? In the context of where it was, I guess yes, it's a change for the better, but in a corporation that innovation has some expectations and it's good to say them out loud and it comes from management, it has to come from management. We've made some reference points in history, we've done something, it's made some money, that's the innovation I want. We need to explicitly name it and create that mandate and measurement and context and regularity of making sure that w e a r e consciously and determinedly at every strategy meeting to see if we are moving the needle here. By doing that, that management makes it clear that this is a priority for the company. It has to come from the top and thereby create a mandate for those people around it to make it happen, but it stands and falls on what innovation is, what the expectations are for it, how big it is, or what the time horizon is. Is it B2B or B2C, does it need to bring in the first money within 3 months, within 6, within 12, within 3 years or do we want a long shot? If it's in 6 years, that's totally fine, I'm able to cover those costs long term because I want to do really big things. Just saying those things in itself syncs those people up in what it can be.

One of the problems that I see a lot is that it's not said, at best a team, an innovation leader or a group, is assigned to say that somebody is in charge and let them innovate. They run around the company and see who has what ideas and there's a whole idea management system to pick it up. But I don't want them to come in three quarters of a year and say in 6 years it's going to be done because my brief as a leader was I need money in 2 years. So the bottom line is you name it. If you don't name it, it's going to end up in a drawer or it's not going to get owned by those people or they're going to say, we've been here before, we've tried this, screw it, and they're playing innovation theater.

What if "we've tried this before"?

Martin Hurych

We have a similar experience and it's not just about corporations. I'll admit that even though you chose a very interesting example, I'm mentally closer to the plank. I think that if you don't do the cutting board, the big innovation that the bigger companies are going for doesn't have a chance of going well unless there's that culture of I'm going to do the cutting board today, I'm going to brush my teeth tomorrow, and the day after that I'm going to get a clean shorts. What I see in a couple of companies is that there is a pumped up management that sees that something has to happen in 2 years, there is even that leader that would adopt it, but it often ends up in the idea gathering and more brainstorming. These people were talking about it 3, 5, 10 years ago, there's nothing else on those sticky notes and you can't even put it in a drawer because it's already killed at the very beginning.

Dalibor Pulkert

We've tried that before, it's been here before, it's a pretty poisonous sentence. It's similar to the one "yet." If you never did languages or maths in high school and the teacher comes to you, it makes a difference if he says you're not good at languages or not good at languages yet. The support is terribly hidden in that, so if someone says we've tried that and it doesn't work in that corporation, or says we've tried that and it doesn't work yet, it makes a big difference. It opens up that space that the door is still there, it's just that somebody has to have the balls to walk through that door and try again.

Otherwise, I think we've described all of the three circles that intersect to make innovation work. You've got the top management or the owners or the ones that give the mandate to make it happen, then you've got the leader that has to own it because without the leader you're not going to do anything and then you've got the culture. That's what you're talking about, that company culture that's ready for something. You said that you think it has to start from the cutting board and then brushing your teeth and I think that doesn't go against each other, that they're actually two parallel tracks that we should be doing as leaders. One is to address that company culture, cultivate that in some way, initiative, innovation, entrepreneurship. It's one thing to initio, to start, but just because somebody starts it doesn't mean they're the one that's going to do the innovation or start the business, that's going to be the inner entrepreneur. You need to understand that everybody has a role to play there and you need to support all three of those things.

When we talk about the culture, initiative, I want, that means collecting ideas, supporting them. What happens very often, there is a statistic from the University of Rotterdam on this, that if you give two suggestions, you are initiative, you give two suggestions for improvement and nothing happens with it, the third time you I can't. That's very important for us leaders, either we don't collect ideas at all, because I have a neutral motivation, or if I do collect them, I accept the responsibility to do something about it. If I don't, it'll go down. We know some things, but it's hard and it all leads back to the top again, the fish stinks from the head. I know it's terribly hard because all sorts of things are being thrown at us, but I think it's much fairer to say that we're not in a position as a company to innovate right now. We're not going to run that initiative, we're going to focus on that core because we're in a cash cow state. I find that much more fair than pretending that I'm going to start something, get the whole wheel rolling, but actually shoot myself in the foot 3 years from now when I need that initiative.

That culture is cultivated through encouraging initiative, through encouraging innovation, someone comes up with it and then someone has to improve it. The Latin is innovatio, torenew or improve. One thingis thus to initiate, initio, the other is to renew, to improve. In that culture it is often the case that if the person has made it up, then he should make it up, but it doesn't have to be that way. It can be that they combine the initio with the innovatio and do it and then it's handed over to some leader inside, outside, who already owns it and push it through. One can meet a sintraprenuer who can do all three things, who can initiate it, who can validate it, and who can get it going and push it through, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's some system that's built around innovation management to make it work, but it's better not to do it then to kill it.

What if I have no one in my company and I really want to innovate?

Martin Hurych

As a small, medium-sized business owner, I want to do something with this company in 2 years because the market is changing under my hands. But I don't have the inner entrepreneur there to take it on straight away, I need to blow it across the company. What would be the recommended course of action for you, having seen companies like this?

Dalibor Pulkert

You need to tell yourself if you really want it and not lie to yourself. There is such a fundamental difference when the owner who dug the company is still running it and has been there for 20 years, so he knows that to be there for another 15 years, he will do it. If you've got a manager who knows he's got a cycle and in 2, 3 years he may not be there or something may go wrong, the motivation is a little bit different. We need to acknowledge that's the case and we need to put it on the table if we do or if we don't.

The contemporary trend is, let's go agile, let's go lean, let's cut it the salami method, but the salami method has one drawback. I'm a proponent of that approach, but the salami method has one drawback, I decide every time I cut that salami again and again if I want to keep eating that salami. Quite often we forget whether I want to steal the whole salami. Commitment and commitment over whether I want to do these innovations doesn't come from saying let's try to roll out some innovations one at a time. I'm going to make a long-term commitment including budget allocation and capacity allocation.

If I don't have the intrapreneur there yet, is there any way I can identify him inside? He may be dormant, he hasn't gotten a space in that culture yet, so there are ways to find out inside with some talent pool. If I know that's a long-term strategy for me, I'll start looking outside if I don't identify him inside. It can saturate short-term, maybe through the Outboxers, and we'll help find that person, or the person hires. Now I'm going to use Tomas Bata. How do you know if the person is an intrapreneur? Tomas Bata always had a magic question for that when interview. I'll put the word risk in a sentence and see if there's a twinkle in those little eyes that it's okay or if there's fear. It's all risk work, uncertainty in a way. If you have a person who's been doing a job for a long time, and now we want them to be the driver of the thing, we put them in the role of having to go all in. It can't be 10%, in my experience it's not going to work. We need to create a massive capacity for him, ideally 100% when it gets going. But all of a sudden the guy is going to go wobbly, because if it dies under his feet, which it can with innovation, then in the meantime the company is going to patch up his work because they need that core to work and he could lose his job. That's tough and that's the job with the risk of saying that's fine, that you'll eventually find something else. You as the intrapreneur are looking for the person who has either been in business or wants to be in business terribly badly and is a terrible short step away from quitting your job and starting something

of your own. You saturate him with the fact that he has a stake in it, that he has influence, that he has succeeded in something. If thatbut if you're afraid of losing your own job, you might not be the right person.

Martin Hurych

But there are very few people like that, because they usually open their own companies.

Dalibor Pulkert

Or they need to saturate. We're back to how can you keep a person this small from starting a business. They have to be in business with you or feel like they're in business with you. More options

isn't, or you find someone who isn't, and they're going to be there for the next 15 years, but it might not actually work because they don't have the hunger. You're really looking for a person who's on the verge of throwing it on your back and starting their own company. That's hard, but that person is going to dig that innovation and now we're talking about big innovation, not process improvement, lifting the plank, you don't need that person for that. There are a few of them, but they are there and you need to not only identify that it's them, but you need to catch them at the right time. It's like finding the right woman to fit you, there will be plenty of them in this world, in the Czech Republic alone you'll have about 1,500 potential great partners. But some of them are already taken, some of them already have kids, so you narrow it down because the timing is important. It's the same with the entrepreneur, you have to hit it in the right window and that's hard, that's an art, but when you get it right, things happen.

Where will innovators find a voice?

Martin Hurych

Do these people have any support somewhere? A lot of times you go against everybody, maybe you have a mandate from the top, but a lot of times you have to break down what's underneath you, a lot of times these people don't quite have teams but they have some dotted lines and people have to ask for capacity. From the position of somebody who has experienced dotted lines, this is a terribly grueling position and a permanent ask. Do these people have any support somewhere, where can they even turn to, does it make sense and what should they be doing differently, better, where should they possibly turn to?

Dalibor Pulkert

I know a lot of people I can connect like that, so drop me a line on LinkedIn and I'll connect you to people. At least it's therapeutic in that they can talk about what's going on in their companies. solves. At the same time they pass on advice and it's really good not to be alone in that. You've warmed my soup a little bit for one of the new projects we're launching now called Mindnudge. It's a combination of mind, mind, nudge, nudge. Nudge is a concept from behavioral economics, social psychology, that says nudging can help you to be your better self. A typical example that's used a lot is that based on the placement of items in the cafeteria, they were able to statistically increase the amount of healthy things you eat without taking away your choice. The fries are still there, but they're in a different place than apples, lettuce, etc. So it's not that they're taking away your free will, that would be manipulation and I don't like that, but somehow they're trying to get a sense of what the people, the company, the business wants and adjust the architecture of choice. It's kind of looking for the intersection of what's best for those people and what's best forthe company and the choice architecture to determine and improve statistically to make that happen.

Going back, I feel like there are three things going on in that society today that keep repeating themselves to me. One, I don't have time to stop and think. There's the family, there's the company, now I might just have a quick beer with my friends to relax a little bit too and if I cram a sauna in that'll be great, but it's like a runaway train. Stopping is hard and quite often you need help to stop. The other thing is that he feels alone on some things. Just having fun with someonecan help tremendously. The third thing is that someone is consciously listening to you and helping you through a change. Life is change, you make a thousand decisions every day, it's an awful lot and when it's an awful lot you fall into the status quo, throw it away and ride the train.

With this project, we aim to connect these three things so that someone else is there for you. Imagine it as a platform or a mobile app where you sign up, ideally you're already paid by the company, you say what topics you're working on, your partners are filtered and then you choose the nudger, the nudger. Suddenly you're not alone in this, and it opens up a space for a method called asynchronous micro-coaching, where you're able to communicate when you need to, but you know you have a modus operandi there. I'll send you a message that you'll read when you're ready, but I know you'll write me back in about maybe 2 days. I can pay extra for a quicker response, but it's convenient for both parties that it's not on that train. The asynchronicity of sending it back and forth, but also the certainty that the person will write you back, is enough and carries great value from our experience and long testing that lasted 3 months.

Martin Hurych

That completes your own circle, having the tools, having the people who want to apply them, and having someone to talk to about it and someone to kick them into it. I wish youthis circle succeeds in spreading and let the support for innovation succeed in reaching the Czechs.

Dalibor Pulkert

Thank you very much. I'm trying different avenues from non-profit to book, so we'll see what the response is. I guess the best way to reach me is on LinkedIn, so if anyone wants to chat or wants to help out that is an intrapreneur and needs to connect to another intrapreneur that is dealing with similar things, add me on LinkedIn.

BONUS - DISCOUNT ON THE BOOK

Martin Hurych

We should also read the book because you've boxed us a special bonus.

Dalibor Pulkert

It's a 30% discount that will be applied at melvil.cz, we'll send you the code and you'll get it a hair cheaper.

Martin Hurych

So if you want to read Dalibor's book, be sure to download today's bonus, there will be a complete path to getting that 30% discount. Thank you for being here again, I hope it

it was not the last time and I hope that what you are doing will be written into more and more Czechs, because I think we need it as a nation.

Dalibor Pulkert

I thank you for inviting me, I also keep my fingers crossed for you and will be very happy for any feedback that comes in.

Martin Hurych

I'm slowly losing my voice, so before I lose it completely, I'll just say goodbye, thank you, and express my belief that if anything that's been said here today moves you forward even a little bit, Dalibor and I have done our job well. If not, I hope it's just for now. Check out www.martinhurych.com/zazeh, where there's already a bonus mentioned at the moment, where you can find your way to a discount on the book. Be sure to keep liking, giving subscriptions, or scrolling to someone you think this episode might help. I'm just crossing my fingers and wishing you success, thanks.

(automatically transcribed by Beey.io, translated by DeepL.com, edited and shortened)