You had planned how you were going to change this year. What you're gonna accomplish. What new things you'll learn. In business and in your personal life.
Hand on heart. How many of those New Year's resolutions have you kept so far?
Change is never easy. And the corporate one is all the more difficult because it depends not only on you, but also on your people. And here's where I see a paradox. There's a lot of really smart stuff written about strategies and change management in the management literature. But building habits on the part of our people remains mostly in the personal and sometimes even a bit "ezo" level. Mostly weight loss, languages and running are addressed. The overlap into work life is minimal. Why is that?
I asked Jan Gibek, ACC, about this. And not only that. We also discussed other topics:
🔸 What is the relationship between change management and personal habits?
🔸 How to encourage your people to build new habits?
🔸 How to set the right priorities and achieve them?
🔸 Is it better to analyze things or to get started right away?
🔸 How to deal with those who do not want to change?
TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW
Martin Hurych
Hello. I'm Martin Hurych and this is Zahžeh. Today's Ignition might be a bit ezo for many of you at first glance, however for today's topic I have chosen habit building. I'd like to show you how important habit building is in your business and in fulfilling your ambitions and strategies. When we talk about habit building, it's with Honza Gibek. Hi.
Jan Gibek
Hi, Martin.
Does Honza miss the police special forces?
Martin Hurych
Honza is the Head of Cyber Sales at Česká zbrojovka, a certified personal coach and, what I found very interesting about Honza, a former member of the special units of the police and military police. I hear you like action movies. Do you miss the police?
Jan Gibek
I have to admit that I sometimes miss my work in the police and military police. But one gets older, wiser, the body doesn't serve as well as it did in one's 20s or 30s, so it's more of just that, a kind of sigh of what it used to be, but one has to move on.
Martin Hurych
Do you miss the police, or do you miss your physique?
Jan Gibek
I have to say that my physique was on a different level than it is now, I miss it, but on the other hand, sometimes you have to acknowledge the change and adapt to it, because none of us can beat time.
What has Honza done?
Martin Hurych
So come and tell us who you are, what you have been through, so that we can understand from which perspective we will look at the topics that we will then discuss together.
Jan Gibek
As you mentioned, I worked in the police and military police for a long time. Basically, right after my basic military service, I joined these forces, where I was until 2009. Then, due to my knowledge of weapons and their handling, I joined Czech Armaments as a protector, product manager and then as head of Cyber Sales. This is a new department that deals with customization of weapons for customers, which we started at Czech Armory. At the same time, since 2009, I became very interested in personal development, improving the results of efficiency both at work and in my private life. So I started reading self-development books, watching podcasts, videos, attending some courses and trainings. It helped me, so I wanted to share these ideas with other people, so I did a professional coaching course with Vladi Tuka at Neuroleadership.
Martin Hurych
I can think of two questions about this. The vast majority of former managers, now certified coaches, have been through some sort of tear or blood valley. I assume you've had a similar experience.
Jan Gibek
Yeah, one of the things that shaped me a lot was basically that transition between the military police and the armory, where I kind of fell, stepped in a bigger puddle, got dirty and had to pick myself up and get back on my feet. It was also due to a big ego and mismanagement of my own ego.
Martin Hurych
It's okay, we both had the same thing. On the positive side, you said customization of weapons. If I understood it in layman's terms as the first gun e-store, I would understand it right?
Jan Gibek
You'd almost get it right, because by default, if I take the Czech Republic where we started, they don't sell those guns on e-shops at all. We've created a platform where you can actually choose a gun and customize it to your individual circumstances. We basically took inspiration from the design of the car configurator at Porsche. We liked that, so we used that. You can pick and choose and customize the gun according to your own needs, according to the offerings that are out there, and at the same time, you can subscribe to the gun right away, reserve it, and it goes into production. So our configurator works like an e-shop for guns, but we do not send the gun by post, but the customer has to pick it up in person and has to provide the appropriate documents that are needed to comply with the legislation.
What is the relationship between change management and personal habits?
Martin Hurych
Why am I talking about this, we are not going to talk about weapons today, but it takes courage to push a new project both in the market and in the company, it takes courage to fight with the established habits and the established corporate strategy. That's what I want to talk about today. We had two podcasts here in the fourth quarter of last year where we discussed change management in the broadest sense. We talked about changing the company culture, changing the sales process, changing anything in the company before we went on the air. But we talked about the corporate level and just lightly touched on what that does to people and how to work with people to not be so subject to those changes, to go through those changes effectively and build new habits for that new state. That's why you're here. What do you think is most important about those two things? What do you think is the relationship between change management and habit building?
Jan Gibek
Thank you for the question, interesting question. I believe that change management primarily looks at it from the side of the company and their needs. We need to make that change here to make the company more efficient, more successful, more profitable and a lot of it is looked at from that perspective and forgetting about the people and what it does to them. The first kind of bridge that can connect change management and habits is to find the right motivation, to sell it to those people so that they don't just see the benefit for the company, they find the benefit for themselves. At the same time, the person who communicates this to people should already be a leader in some way, so that they know how people react to the news and consider meeting basic work needs. Here I would mention safety in particular. When we talk about habits, a lot of it has to do with the brain and reactions. The brain likes safety, and any change that doesn't have a clearly defined outcome, or that the brain can't imagine, it resists. So when a leader or a manager wants to make a change, they should make sure that when they communicate, they touch on that safety and reassure those people that the change is for the benefit of the company, for them, and explain exactly what the impact will be. If he explains that, then that security will be fulfilled and the person will accept it better. Another need besides security is some autonomy. It makes a difference if a leader gives directive orders to his people, or if he involves them more and gives them that autonomy. That option can either be that he asks for their opinion, or he gives them a choice of several ways to grasp the matter. That is also a big difference. Then, of course, it can be trust, or another of the basic work needs, respect and fairness to the people who work in the company. Again, if I don't respect that, then those people get into some kind of a state of disengagement. The brain will resist that change. So it's good to focus or communicate those things with that in mind, what our person is going through in the company. I should also consider his individuality, so his beliefs, his values, and possibly the culture that he has behind him.
How to encourage your people to build new habits?
Martin Hurych
I see change management as an inclined plane on which you push a ball uphill, and usually you push more balls at once. How many employees you have, that's how many balls you push. It seems to me that, with respect to everything you said, which is true without debate, you don't really curate it until your people accept it as their own. What you said is from the position of me versus my people, but those people strike me as just like those marbles the moment you stop pushing them and they roll back into the habits that they should have. I want them to do something new and they do things the old-fashioned way. I want them to have a different company culture and we're still operating with shenanigans. Habit building is a thing that normally flies around in the ether around weight loss, around running, learning a language. Those are probably the most common things when we talk about habit building. But building habits can have a very significant impact on the profitability of a company. So how do I encourage people within corporate life to realize that they need to change those habits, and how do I choose the ones that I need to change and start anchoring those habits in myself?
Jan Gibek
As we talked about a moment ago, the first thing is to get the person to understand that the change, the creation of a new habit, makes sense for the company and for the person. To help him understand that, I'm fulfilling the principles I mentioned here in that communication.
Martin Hurych
I know I'm supposed to be learning English, but I just haven't been able to speak it for 15 years. You know it. We all understand that we're supposed to do it, but we're perpetual beginners or we don't know it perfectly and we have a bunch of excuses. I've come to understand that I'm supposed to do it. How do you really start doing it? Because that's where the stumbling block is for me. We all understand that the company needs to change because there's always something raging around, but a lot of these people have an awful lot of inertia. So how do you start that real change on that personal level?
Jan Gibek
Here I would definitely recommend some proven principle in building habits at this level. Even though I have some awareness that I need to build the habit and I know why I want it to begin with, I still need to answer the question of why I want it and what good it will do me as part of a deeper awareness. This question should be asked in the same way as when looking for the root causes of a problem in a company. So we might as well ask ourselves five times why I want this English and get to the deepest level of motivation I need. Maybe to this day, Martin, you've only stayed at the first level and not gone that deep, which is a prerequisite for finding that deepest motivation. Motivation gives us the energy we need because every habit needs a few essential things. It's execution energy, then it's focus on the work we're doing, then it's repetition, and finally it's evaluating how we're doing. If that motivation is deep enough, then we move on to the next process, which is habit planning. I would liken it to wanting to make a good meal from a recipe.
Martin Hurych
We'll get to the recipes in a minute. When my boss tells me we need to change the business process, my motivation isn't the process itself, which I don't care much about, but if I understand you correctly, it's finding that personal thing. I want to be able to pay my mortgage, I need to make good money, and to make good money, that's where I need to get promotions or meet budgets. That's my thing. Is that what we're talking about?
Jan Gibek
That's right. Everyone will actually find their deepest level of motivation that will give them energy for that activity.
How do you make a "recipe" for building a habit?
Martin Hurych
I understand. So now I know why I'm doing it on that personal level and I'm making up the recipe. What's next?
Jan Gibek
You're making a recipe, so it's good to describe what the habit is, name it and tell yourself what, when, how and with whom I'm going to do it, plan it out and go for it. That's the first part. It's the same as if we want to make a good sirloin steak. Without a recipe, if we don't know how to make it, if we don't have the habit yet, we're not going to make it. So we need to follow the recipe and go step by step. We can't expect food at the end if we don't even start. We have to keep that in mind, that even the habit building is not an end in itself, that no one is going to do it for us, and that there has to be that actual action. To do that, we need to adjust the conditions, have some implementation energy, and that comes with setting smaller goals to start with than where I want to get to. If I compare it to a morning run, for example, if I want to get to the level of running 5km in the morning three times a week, I'll start by just going for a 500m walk around the house three times a week. It's all about getting started. Step by step, that's how I build the habit that meets that repetition and focus. A terribly important part of habit building is self-reflection. It's important to look back after that day, after that week, how I've been doing with the recipe I've prepared for building that particular habit, and be as honest with myself as possible. I look at what went well, what didn't go well, and think about what I need to do differently to get where I want to go.
How to set the right priorities and achieve them?
Martin Hurych
We're coming at a time when it's very likely that a lot of us have given up a bunch of New Year's resolutions, both on the personal and corporate level. If I look at the owner level, for example, I had a bunch of ambitions about how I was going to change the company, what I was going to change strategically, and so on. In my experience, the reason I'm done now is because I've taken on an awful lot. If you saw my lists of resolutions, you wouldn't feel very good about it as a coach. So how do you deal with this overload? Because you've told me that you see a lot of poor prioritization among your clients in general.
Jan Gibek
My experience with the people around me is that they really pick up too much and therefore can't keep their attention. They have a long to-do list of what they want to do and they can't get the priorities right that have the biggest impact and effect on both their work and their life and they get overwhelmed. That overwhelm and paralysis often leads them to put it all off. So in my experience it's good to do focus. Make a to-do list of the top 3 things and put everything else to the side. It's also good to mention that even if I already have a to-do list, it's good to occasionally make a not-to-do list, which is a list of what I'm not going to do at all, what's taking up my energy and time. So if I pick those 3 things, it can even be one thing, and I go into them, keep that focus and don't get distracted, I'm on my way. Once I have those 3 goals, it's good to take each one step by step and not want to do everything at once. Every journey starts with a first step, but sometimes we see the whole journey and we are afraid to take that first step. At the same time, the experience is that if we take that first step, the next step is easier. The same thing can happen to us with some important activities, but once we get past the first 15 minutes, we find that it's not so bad and the result comes.
Is it better to analyze things or to get started right away?
Martin Hurych
There is one thing I see around me that I have a problem with sometimes. Prioritization sounds awfully simple. We all know the Pareto rule, 20% of things control 80% of outcomes. What if it's not so obvious, what if you're embarking on something new where you don't quite know? Do you recommend analyzing more, or do you just jump in and see where it takes you?
Jan Gibek
I would probably use common sense here, it's always important. As you say, it happens that people do nothing because they are always looking for new information, and there is so much information that we are often stuck or waiting for the best conditions. But we know that the best conditions will never come. If we had waited for the best conditions before having children, we would probably still be childless today. So it is with other things. For me, it's good to piece together a lot of information, but not get totally overwhelmed by it, and then based on that information, make some sort of brief road map of what I'm going to start with, what's going to have the biggest effect for me, and go from there. Here I'd like to mention my favorite actor, Matthew McConaughey, who wrote the book Greenlights. There he describes how he was never satisfied with the situation, which was the status quo, to do nothing. He always preferred to say do this or do that, it's always better than staying put because if I make a bad decision I get instant feedback and I know I should do it differently. Even if I make the wrong decision and I do something, if the feedback is quick enough and not extra expensive, I know I should go the other way, I know I should do something else. But as soon as I don't try it, stay in place and just keep waiting for those conditions or analyzing new information, that's when the opportunity can slip through our fingers.
How to deal with those who do not want to change?
Martin Hurych
Now I'm gonna be a little devil's advocate. This constant improvement, maybe chasing dreams for some, is obviously not for everyone. What do you say to those who say that there's no need to keep pushing yourself, to keep changing, and that if you stay put for a while, things will work out without you? How to deal with such people in the company? We are talking about change at the company level, you have to adapt, you have to find something there, you have to change yourself. It's better to do something than nothing. A lot of people want to do nothing, a lot of people procrastinate and don't like to listen to these things. So what do you say within the company to these people, is it even a good idea to fight them or how do you deal with them?
Jan Gibek
That's a tough question, an interesting one. The way I would look at it is that if a company has to have some results to stay in business, to survive, and for other members or employees to come to the company, then they all have to add some value to the company. Thus, if a person who is in a certain place and is not adding that value, they are in the wrong place. So he doesn't have to end up in that company, you just need to find the right place for that person to fit in. Surely there is something that he enjoys, something that he is good at and we know that when we do something that we enjoy and are good at, we are more efficient, more creative and therefore we give some value, some output. So I think it's just a matter of finding that person a better place than where they are now. If he doesn't want to change and the place he's currently in requires constant change, then it's not for him.
Where do you get the energy to change when things aren't going well?
Martin Hurych
I'm gonna want to change. For the umpteenth time, I'm once again forging a spark of hope that I will change. What about when I've had several failures? You say it's just corrective feedback, but how not to shit yourself when there are several mistakes in a row? Where do you get the energy to do it permanently? I have a plan, I've done everything your way. But maybe it's still not mine, maybe I just planned it and I don't mean it, so I'm collapsing. I know I have to learn foreign languages, but not many people of my generation can really speak 2, 3 languages well. What do you do if it's still not going well? Everyone keeps telling you you should, you know you should, but you still can't find the energy to change. Is it the plan, is it me? What about finally succeeding after 15 failes?
Jan Gibek
I'd probably recommend taking another look at the recipe as habits build. So, it's good to go through the whole system in the same way that I analyze a system or the outputs of a system in my company. If I'm not getting the outcome that I wanted, I do an analysis of that system, of that process. So I would look at the process again. This is where having that intrinsic motivation is crucial for habit formation. If I look back at it again and I say on a scale of 1 to 10 what is my motivation for learning that language and it's not a 9 or 10 and I feel it, then with a lower motivation it's clear that I'm not going to get further, that I'm going to get stuck. But if the motivation is so great that I'm at that 9 and 10, then I can move on to that plan. Now, again, in that process, I look at the things where I didn't succeed according to how I had planned and I look for ways to change that situation so that I can succeed in it next time. It's a lot about thinking and self-reflection.
What habits is Honza building this year?
Martin Hurych
What are you personally working on this year? What habit do you want to build this year?
Jan Gibek
That's a good question. I would first mention what I did last year. That might inspire some people, because I've had shoulder problems since last year. I had an injury while working out, so I've been going to rehab for a year with my shoulder. Since it's so important to me and I'm very motivated to get it together, I've been doing rehab exercises every morning. So building habits can be good for health too, not just in the standard exercise routine, but also if something has happened and we need to at least get back to normal. So I have incorporated rehabilitation exercises, I have incorporated Wim Hof breathing exercises and meditation into my rituals and habits more often than I wanted to. This year it will be more work habits. I would like to go into posting regular content on a certain social network in my industry, coaching and habit building. So I have a plan, I have a goal, and I'd like to make a habit of posting regularly.
Martin Hurych
Where's it going? Because at this point, you've got a big bunch of people who are going to control you to successfully build your habit. So where do we look to see your content?
Jan Gibek
I have to decide first, but I will choose between Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. I'm going to take advice from AI, which I've now started to interact with a bit, and I'm going to dive in. I'm planning a 90-day challenge there, which is such an interesting habit-building period for the mind to make new neuro-connections and then take it on automatically.
How long does it take to build habits?
Martin Hurych
Now you haven't made it any easier for us because everyone believes that a habit is built in 21 days. You're saying 90, so what's it like?
Jan Gibek
I also used to work with 21 days, today I have a 90-day challenge because it's a quarter and I want to close it with that. Otherwise I have experienced and I wrote it on my website that it is 66 days on average, that means 2 months. But it's an average, some habits of course will go faster to build and some on the other hand will require even longer time and more focus. So my new habit for the first quarter is to write content. Again, I'd get to the point that to be able to work with the habit, it's good to start with one habit. So I'm not thinking about starting with 5 things and ending up doing nothing. It's good to start with one thing, focus on that one thing, build that habit, and then start building another one.
Martin Hurych
That leaves us with three quarters to go, so what do you got there?
Jan Gibek
I haven't looked that far yet. I'm going to evaluate the first quarter first and look at what will need to change in terms of self-reflection, what will need to be new, whether to build a new work habit or get back into a personal one. But I'll save that for after I evaluate the first quarter.
Shrnutí
Martin Hurych
If viewers and listeners have listened to this far and would like help with habits, where can we find you?
Jan Gibek
You can find me on the website, jangibek.cz, where I have my own site and there is a link to both personal coaching and a link to a video course on how to build habits.
Martin Hurych
Thank you so much for the habit building parade and for participating in this podcast. Good luck.
Jan Gibek
Thank you for inviting me, Martin. You too, bye.
Martin Hurych
If you're fired up with the desire to change yourself, your company, and finally break through that misery of constant starts, we've done our job well. Be sure to like and subscribe to us wherever you're listening. As usual, check out my website as well, www.martinhurych.com/zazeh, where somewhere around this episode there will be a bonus on how to start building habits. As standard, Honza has put together an incentive and there will be a discount, but that's after the bonus, so don't forget to download. That's a bit of motivation at the end. Thank you for your attention, I keep my fingers crossed and wish you success, thanks.