"There is often a misconception that buying everything wants to be the cheapest and that it's all about the price. It's never just about the price."
We don't like each other very much. We have a spark between us. But we can't do without each other. Shopping and business. Two sides of the same coin. And a bunch of nonsense circulating through the ether from both sides.
What a relief it is when one finds a partner on the other side of the barricade with whom one can discuss in a normal human way what the relationship between the two camps should look like in order to move us all somewhere. And not to send strong statements and measure each other's dicks via LinkedIn.
Lenka Antonová is a very sophisticated lady. She has a lot of experience from abroad and it shows. There's very little that throws her off. She doesn't approach buying like a war to the death. She calmly lets you peek into her own know-how and adds a few opinions that will make some people's pimples pop. For example, that price is not the only parameter and added value is appreciated.
That's why I invited Lenka in front of the microphones to get the most out of her. Maybe...
🔸 What does a strategic buyer do?
🔸 How does purchasing approach different product groups?
🔸 How does a trader know what group he is in?
🔸 What does the preparation of purchasing strategic items look like?
🔸 How to improve purchasing in small and medium-sized companies?
HOW TO GET ALONG SUCCESSFULLY WITH BUYERS (INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT)
Martin Hurych
Hello. I'm Martin Hurych and this is Zahžeh. I would like to start with a request. If you've seen Zazzhen before and you liked something from Zazzhen, don't wait for
nothing and subscribe right now wherever you're watching or listening. It's gonna have a bunch of benefits for both of us. You won't miss any of the other episodes, and thanks to algorithms, I'll be able to invite even cooler guests than tonight's. Today we're going to look at shopping. It might get a little bit sparkly here because buying for a trader is kind of like a red rag on a bull and I'm sure it's the other way around for a buyer. That's why I've brought in the strategic buyer for IT, indirect procurement and all services from Pražská plynárenská, Lenka Antonová. Hello, Lenka.
Lenka Antonová
Hello, Martin. Thank you for inviting me.
How does creativity in private influence professional approaches?
Martin Hurych
I'm so glad you're here. Before we get to the purchase, you're a creative person, what puts your creative self into the purchase?
Lenka Antonová
I've been creative my whole life and it influences me a lot in that I don't go for the usual things, but I always look for my own approach, my own way of doing things, my own perspective. I like to look at certain things from other people's perspectives as well, for me it's never about having a blind spot and just looking at it through one lens.
What does a strategic buyer do?
Martin Hurych
You have the title of Strategic purchasing manager. What does it actually mean?
Lenka Antonová
Strategic is there because we develop strategies for a particular commodity that we buy. There's some misunderstanding between trading and buying, and a lot of people conflate the terms together. Strategic means that I'm not buying like I'm on a treadmill, here I'm getting different requests and I'm buying them, but I'm thinking strategically about it, about my whole portfolio that I'm entrusted with. I'm looking after the major big suppliers, I'm trying to somehow evaluate that collaboration and I'm watching that progress as well. In different companies, the purchasing is set up differently, but often the buyer doesn't end up contracting or ordering something. Then he also monitors the supplier to see if he is fulfilling the contract, for example, when a selection is made, there are kick-off meetings for large projects that the buyer attends. Symbolically, he hands over the purchase to the next team and then he stays in contact with the supplier. It's all about managing those suppliers and those strategies of how I'm going to buy what.
What other shoppers can we meet?
Martin Hurych
What other buyers are there, if not just strategic ones?
Lenka Antonová
Operations, they're in charge of other categories of those portfolios. Then we have direct and indirect buying. Direct buying is everything that I need to produce my product and indirect is everything that keeps the company running. All the utilities, the ancillary office supplies, the phones, the printers, everything else outside of the raw material that I need for that production, I can include in indirect purchasing. We divide the purchase into logical units to make it easier to understand. For example, we have a facility, which includes office supplies, fleet, vehicle fleet, cleaning services, security services, and each portfolio is handled by a buyer. If I have a strategic buyer, it is assumed that he has knowledge of that commodity, that product that he usually buys, he has knowledge of that market, he has some specific know-how and he focuses on that. I've been focusing on IT for the last 3 years now, but before it was more of a project buying for the petrochemical industry where you go on a project, technical buying and you go on a project basis. A lot of people confuse those commodities, which can also be seen as that feedstock, as a commodity or as a non-critical category. But we buyers sometimes say we're in charge of a certain commodity, that portfolio, that logical whole in that company, that IT or that marketing, and that's why we create those buying strategies.
How does purchasing approach different product groups?
Martin Hurych
Sometimes it seems to me that not only in everyday life, when I talk with clients or even with the other side, with buyers, and when I read Czech LinkedIn, I sometimes think that we are talking in total out-of-character. Someone talks about a commodity as a wagon of mothers that I buy on every other corner, someone talks about a commodity as a category and someone talks about a strategic purchase of something that is acquired once every 20 years in a company. How do you look at these different types of products that you buy from a purchasing perspective?
Lenka Antonová
Let's call it categories, and we'll call the individual buying groups of those products commodities for a while to sort of clarify that. We have, say, five buyers and each one has a commodity. One will be in charge of marketing, one will be in charge of IT, one will be in charge of maybe facilities or property management. We can generally say that each of those groups, of those commodities will fall into a certain category of purchasing according to Kraljic's matrix.We have 4, and each of those determines how much risk in securing that delivery, or how much money, how much impact it has on the company, and we categorize those 4 accordingly. Office supplies theoretically can all be somewhere with low cost and low risk. ERP systems development is going to be a strategic product because it affects the running of my business on for the next x years ahead, it has high costs, it is technically very complex and there is a lot of risk. That way I can divide all of my buying portfolios, those buying commodities into those 4 categories and for each category we have given preferred buying strategies on how I'm going to buy that product. But just because I have my commodity facility doesn't mean that I'm going to have everything in that non-critical. We have non-critical items, we have bottleneck items, we have items where we have great bargaining power, leverage and strategic items. I may very well have every product in that one portfolio in a different one of those categories.
Martin Hurych
Bargaining power in terms of buying power means a cheap item in bulk for you?
Lenka Antonová
High volume, high money is a lever for me that is in that quadrant on the top left where I have high financial volume and low risk. If I have office supplies, I would say they're non- critical there, but maybe just printers and phones I can have in that lever. In the strategic ones, maybe there will be some sort of asset management or building management system that if I go down, people won't be able to get into my office. In that bottleneck I might have an item, it might be that pencil as well, but as long as I have some gold ink in there that my supplier has a monopoly on and I can't get it anywhere else but from him. I've decided as part of my company strategy that I'm going to sign every fifth order with that gold ink, and at that point it becomes a bottleneck.
So it's not that if I'm entrusted with one portfolio, I have everything in one box. I can have different products in that portfolio in different categories, and of course it can still happen that the category changes in the course of time. I have it in non-critical now, absolutely the market changes and it's a bottleneck. There needs to be a strategic buyer or manager to keep an eye on that, evaluate it somehow over time and not just assume that if I have office supplies, everything is going through some automatic ordering on e-shop. I need to check my portfolio from time to time, see what's happening in the market, do some market research, consultations and presentations with suppliers on a regular basis.
How does a trader know what group he is in?
Martin Hurych
Come tell me from the other side of the barricade how I, as a trader, find out what category I'm in. I'm somehow drawn to the strategic or bottleneck category, but I could be horribly wrong. How am I supposed to verify any of my ideas?
Lenka Antonová
You have to know me as the customer, my needs and my situation. If we're talking once a year or 10 years from now, you probably won't know them. You're not going to have that general context because for me as a strategic buyer, it's not just about putting some of those items in some of those categories. If I can combine that with
with your view of the trade and the market situation, I also have a much different approach to it and I can find out things that I would normally just put in non-critical. But by still evaluating that the current market situation is different, that I'm not an attractive customer for traders, that can lead me to a different strategy. If you google Kraljic's matrix on the internet and look at how they rank those individual items and how I find that individual item there, then of course you can follow that as a trader. That's usually the case, but unless you know your customer exactly, you don't know that I have that pen with the gold ink and you don't know that I have it in the other category. Of course, you can use that side of it, too, that if you know that and if you know that I can combine those two perspectives together, then you can use that for yourself as a marketer. You probably also have customers there depending on how much business you do with them, what the volume is and how big of an attractive customer they are, if you even want to do that business with them. That's what I can translate into my buying strategy and combine that together. You can use that to tell yourself what customer has what problems, what projects they have, what's going on there and who's attractive. You take advantage of that situation, you suddenly get an opportunity to get out of that box, to change the supplier into a strategic partner box and that can open up more and more opportunities. Now, of course, the question is whether it's worth working with an unattractive customer, what's the benefit in the future or if you want some references on a project you don't have yet.
How to get information about what the purchase really wants?
Martin Hurych
Finding out what the customer needs means at least one of two things. Either you will allow me to join you as a merchant buyer so we can even get into the first discussion, or I will try to nab a brief somewhere other than through buying from your company. What makes you more angry if I'm going to hang out there without you, or if I bombard you with the fact that I just want to meet and I don't have anything for you at the moment because we need to get to know each other first and I need to find out your needs?
Lenka Antonová
You as salespeople have various networking events where you definitely meet someone other than the buyer first. You may have some information from the market or from other positions or roles within that company. Then of course it also often happens that we buyers are recommended to meet with someone or are given a reference to a supplier. I'm not completely opposed to that, because I need to expand my knowledge, I need to expand my portfolio, I need to increase my qualifications. The way I do that is by always researching the market, by talking to those suppliers about what I'm currently addressing about my portfolio.
There is certainly a big difference between B2B and B2C, but those cold calls certainly don't work for us. Even though maybe in the moment we'd be open to having a conversation, most of the time we either don't have time or I want the information up front so I can retrieve it, figure it out, see where it fits. You have to find that loophole that I have open right now, what I need right now, what I'm dealing with right now, so that I have that added value of that communication with you, so that I have something to ask. The fact that you're going to bring in a formula and explain to me exactly what you have in your portfolio that's new for next year, I'm not really interested in that moment. I need to know what you as a company for the types of services or products you offer. If I'm going to be in IT and I know you're going to be a partner for some systems migration, I want to know what types of systems you can migrate. Because I know that there will be some tenders in the future or that we're going to be dealing with that, so I can already see some room there for me to catch myself asking you for some information that I don't currently have. Usually when we decide to contact you as traders, we strategic buyers have already spent a lot of time on that preparation. We have that experience and that specific knowledge mostly about our category, so I'm going to be looking for that information that I'm missing that I'm not going to read on your website. Because we regularly scan the market and search, and sometimes there's these terribly impractical things on those sites that, while they just alert me to the fact that you're great at selling a service, I don't actually learn anything.
How do I get on the watch list?
Martin Hurych
So how do you get into some of the pool of sites you follow? A lot of people show catalogues all the time, so I'll go to a meeting to show you a catalogue, you logically don't want it and have it sent to you in the mail, which you then don't look at.
Lenka Antonová
Let me see, we're watching. It's fine if you have the number and you get in touch with someone who can alert me in advance and then you send me the offer. That way if you echo me ahead of time that you're sending something, that's kind of a warm up to that cold call and then I'll definitely at least skim the information. I'm going to go look at the company, if it's a company that I'm absolutely unfamiliar with, I know they're in an industry, I'm going to look at what they're doing and evaluate very quickly if it's going to make any sense to me.
I probably won't read the catalogues as such, I'll be mainly interested in the hawk's eye view of what you do and what you offer. If it fits into my category, my current need or a short-term need for the future, I'll keep finding out. But at least I have that information about you in there, because just because I don't have that need now doesn't mean I won't be looking in that email a year from now. We use it that way because you guys have different systems where you have information on those people, but we use that email for that. We then put what we need in that search box and now it comes up. That's why we want everything in writing so that we have that communication with you there, so that we're aware of what we've been dealing with. Then when I look for an implementation company for a program, I know I have some information there, but I can't remember the name of the contractor right now. Most of the time, you're also trying to freshen up the portfolio a little bit in the RFQ, bring in new faces, new companies where you haven't done the RFQ before, because for us it increases the competition. So if I kind of have in the back of my head somewhere that I got something like that about it and now I don't know what it's called, I want to find it in that email. I want all your contact information in there. It's absolutely horrible how salespeople don't write their phone numbers in their signature, I don't get it.
Is there any other way to get into the company other than purchasing?
Martin Hurych
I'm pretty critical about this and I repeat here quite often that I divide people in the store into 3 categories, salesman, clerk and feeder. There are very few salesmen. There's one other thing that caught my eye. There is a belief amongst us sales people that when I go into a business, there is no way into the business other than through buying. It struck me there that you are actually saying, when someone comes in from the firm and says look at us, we look good, that inside the firm they will preheat that contact to you, that you are not against that.
Lenka Antonová
I don't, because the networking events are there, our bosses go to them and they are there to do business, it's completely logical. Just because you meet somebody somewhere and you see some possibility of working together doesn't guarantee that it will actually happen afterwards. Don't think that if my boss brings me a name and says they're going to ask Martin Hurych that you're going to win it. The fact that you get a chance to participate is fine, but you're going to have to work like hell to get in the top three.
How to get into a dialogue with purchasing?
Martin Hurych
There's one thing I'm concerned about. What we are saying here, and you have it in the preparation, is that you are making your own category, you are defending the interests of your own company or your own employer, that is all fair enough. You're also saying that you put a lot into not showing catalogues, but showing your differentiation, building some added value, and helping to know the problem. I don't know where that comes from, but marketers often forget that the counterparty is very skilled at what they are buying.
Very likely, he is not buying for the first time what the trader is selling. My point is that there should be some dialogue first. As a new company that hasn't had contact with you, how do you even get into that dialogue?
Lenka Antonová
Through the picks, through the inquiries. There are also systems where they publish those requests for proposals or large tenders. Companies do it too, not only for government contracts where you have to publish, companies do it already voluntarily. They put their tenders in an electronic system and this is partly to make it transparent, to prevent a friend of a friend from bidding for something. It can be that way, but you have to be competitive, you have to offer that added value. So that's also one way to look.
Through that networking, I guess those buyers also go and look for information sometimes, because if you just keep ordering from the big five, you're going to lose that leverage there over time. You also need to reinvigorate yourself and seek information. We as buyers have to keep educating ourselves, keep up with the market, know what's going on in that market. There's always something new in IT, there's always something new, so I have to keep learning, educating myself and knowing what I'm talking about. I don't like it when I have to deal with a supplier afterwards and I don't really know what's going on. I think it's about the cooperation, it's a bit different here in the Czech Republic, where everybody's looking after its know-how, that's what it's building on, but that's not the way to a long-term sustainable business. I am of the opinion that we grow together. Certain values are very important to me, I advocate ethical buying, some invitations to go golfing somewhere are not going to apply to me. It's also because I'm so trained from abroad where it's normal that you have some anti- corruption policies and you can't accept donations for more than €100. But firstly, it's also because it's important for me to give everyone a fair chance. If you are qualified, you offer what we require, so why am I going to favour someone just because they tell me how I look.
What does the preparation for the purchase of strategic items look like?
Martin Hurych
We're talking a lot about strategic purchasing, maybe really strategic items. I suspect, somewhat amateurishly, that it's still not entirely about things that you buy once every 15, 20 years, like digitalization of the company, customized software, and other things that you can't really specify. You already have to take a bunch of steps on your own side before listing a tender. Come tell me what the process looks like on your side and where maybe a salesperson could help you even in that pre-tender phase.
Lenka Antonová
These are very interesting items because there is a huge diversity, there is such a tension about what it is going to be, because many times we don't even know what we want. That is a common situation, so we can approach it in different ways. On our side, we can spend up to half the time just preparing before it even gets out into the world that we're going to go shopping or asking for something like that. So for an information system where we don't even know what we want yet, we can do market research and consult with those suppliers. I'll approach a supplier, say we're thinking about a product and have them present their solution. For me, it's an opportunity to get a huge amount of information that we don't yet have internally to write or modify that specification. We'll try to listen to different solutions from different platforms so we can evaluate which of those platforms would be relevant.
If they are very strategic and critical systems in the tens of millions of crowns, then a proof of concept is done, which can follow, for example, after the market research. There, it is verified whether the solution is technically feasible in our company and whether it will fulfil the purpose we want. We can also have a third independent party do a rebuttal to that, to evaluate whether it's logically the right conclusion, whether it works. At this stage, we can spend an awful lot of time gathering that information, thinking even ahead about what we need to have in the contracts, what the risks are going to be and how we're going to address them. You as a contractor can of course come to those presentations, explain and give as much technical information as possible. Because by helping me to get the specification right and to prepare the tender, you spend less time afterwards on creating the tender. You can then properly build your bid to fit me so that I can get that information and that pricing. Because we often divide the price into different sub-components, we don't like lump sum pricing. The fact that you can help us think about the problem and give us indications of what issues to think about, what to consider, will of course help us build that specification.
This will then help you in the tender itself to make the offer in the format we need. If the buyer sends you an Excel with 100 rows, just fill it out because you can't avoid it. If you mess it up, it's not going to be good for you.
What is the subsequent selection procedure?
Martin Hurych
Did I understand correctly that we are now at the moment of the tender and then there is a classic tender, very probably some kind of multi-criteria tender?
Lenka Antonová
In these more complex things, where we don't even know exactly what the outcome of the purchase is going to be, what is often done even in these tenders is that it's multiple rounds. In fact, in some of the rounds, the specification may still be adjusted based on the bids that come in. Even if you give, for example, an indicative offer in the market survey, not all the information is there yet, the specification is not yet finalised. So the original indicative and price offer may not be completely complete and reflect the final product or service that we will be buying. So in some of those rounds, the specification may be refined. What we also do is that we had 5 different platforms in the market research, we decide that 3 of those might be relevant and we ask all those 3 in that tender as options. In the course of those bids coming in, we evaluate, technically we find out all the information we need, we go ahead with technical option B and then that's competed on that price and not just that price. Often there's also quality data and criteria, delivery dates, qualifications, certifications of contractors, how many of those projects maybe they've done, how much volume, how long they've done that project, and so on.
Who sets the parameters of the tender?
Martin Hurych
I kind of assume from corporate that the buyer isn't on his own, but he has some sort of buying advisory panel that covers those different aspects of what's being bought at the moment. Is that right, or do they really leave you alone in that?
Lenka Antonová
You're paying for a specialist, so he's assumed to have that knowledge, but of course he doesn't make the decision himself. If you take it through the tenders, there's not a lot of leeway there. There it spits out some sort of ranking based on those specified criteria of what we want to evaluate the bid against. It could be price, delivery time, that's somehow calculated and we have spreadsheets for that.
Martin Hurych
I understand that, I am more concerned with how the criteria for the tender are drawn up.
Lenka Antonová
That's a certain know-how especially of the buyer who just has to assess the risk that I have there. In order to avoid that risk, I will put some criteria in there as to who I will allow to enter the tender. That's like some of those references and if quality or delivery time is important to me, then of course I'll put that in there. But it's not just the buyer who decides. It's mainly the internal customer who decides, who just tells you that quality is more important to them than price. Then we evaluate that quality just by references or number of implementations, for example, and we assume that the more experience he has, the higher the quality. It's about communication and agreement between that internal customer of mine.
There is often this misconception that buying everything wants the cheapest price and that it's all about the price. It's never just about the price.
Martin Hurych
Can you say that twice more? Because my customers also live in the mindset that it's all about price, and I find that a lot of shoppers feed into that as well, and I actually get it the moment we're in that leverage. Because those people have some clout, they're really commodity buyers in my vocabulary, often juniors, so they're the ones that my bubble has a big panic about. That's why I say, if you can reiterate and get everybody's attention, that it's not all about price, we're going to go for value added as well.
Lenka Antonová
The added value plays a big role, but again you have to be able to evaluate if you are in the non-critical group, there is no point. You as a supplier obviously have to try to be in that value-added quadrant of that strategic partner, it's all about something other than price there. There's a misconception that everything is just about the price and that we're all competing on price. Of course, if I have a junior buyer who is only in charge of office supplies at the beginning because he doesn't have that experience yet, then it's going to be all about price. But because of that, maybe the store doesn't know that we're breaking it down and categorizing it that way, so they have this idea that purchasing is just there to save money.
Of course, this is a big goal of ours because the impact of our work is across the company, in the results of the company, but also a little bit in the processes of the company. It's not just about how we buy, but how we're able to set up the contract, the agreement, even the payment terms. How we do the invoicing can affect how many people are involved in the invoicing process, whether I'm dealing with an invoice for 5 minutes or 3 hours, and whether it's one person or 10 people.
What information should a trader study to understand the purchase?
Martin Hurych
Come give us as traders a few hints where to educate ourselves and understand what the counterparty is about, because I have long said that I sense a long-standing spark between buying and trading, often artificially fueled from both sides. As a trade, what to read, where to look, where to study something?
Lenka Antonová
If you Google procurement, purchasing, I'm sure a lot of things will come up. Definitely try to find the Kraljic matrix and the Dutch windmill matrix, which is actually an upgrade. It's combining that trader's view with the buyer's view. I, as a buyer, if I'm already a little bit trained, have some experience, I'll definitely use that buying matrix.
But I think there are only a few buyers who combine it with your trader's view and suddenly instead of 4 categories and 4 strategies, I have 16 strategies. So definitely find a Dutch windmill.
How to improve purchasing in SMEs?
Martin Hurych
As far as I go among small and medium-sized companies, I think the quality of purchasing in small and medium-sized companies is not great. What should the owners of these firms do first or what should they focus on in their purchasing to really start getting the savings they are talking about?
Lenka Antonová
I think as a business owner you have to have a good salesperson and a good buyer. Because first of all, you want the salesperson to bring as much of that business in as possible, and at the same time, the mid-sized company is also buying some consulting or systems. So let them educate your buyers, invest in a good buyer who already has some of that experience. It doesn't really have to be a very top tier one that you're going to apply more in that corporation, but at least have some buyer there that's going to want to educate themselves, look for those avenues and strategies. I need to realize where I have the biggest problem, where I have the risk categories where I can try to reduce that risk, and conversely where I can save the company the most money. Even in large companies, it's quite a challenge to promote the work of purchasing. You don't quite see it in P&L, but you need to promote it and promote your work somehow. It's not just about how much money we've saved, it's about how well we've written the contract, for example, that it's shortened the time of the project because we've reduced some of the risks and that costs money too. That money can be saved on indirect things as well, and I think it makes sense for medium- sized companies as well. But usually the problem is that there's someone in finance doing the buying, for example, which is a shame because that's where t h e savings lie.
When will the sparks stop between the salesman and the buyer?
Martin Hurych
Last question today, when will the spark between buying and trading stop?
Lenka Antonová
It depends on the approach of the trader and the buyer. It doesn't sparkle for me, Ithink it's mainly that everyone is out there to grab the biggest piece, the biggestmouthful.The dealer goes there to negotiate the biggest deal and give the smallest discount. The buyer plans ahead to ask for a 20% discount and if it doesn't work out, he backs down to 15%. The buyer often goes in there with the idea that they have to grab the biggest discount to meet some of their KPIs, if that's how it's set up in a company. Often people don't realise that by doing that I can set up and damage the relationship for a very long time ahead and never know how that market situation will change. If it's a category supplier, I change it every year because there's a huge number of those suppliers, so I guess there's no problem, but you also don't know when it might be completely different. I think very few people go into it thinking we're just going to make a good deal, a good deal that's going to be good for both of us. Most people go in there to grab as much as they can for our company, but i t shouldn't be that I'm going to destroy the other side by doing that. For a lot of people, that's the fun part, it's kind of the adrenaline rush, the excitement of it, so they go into it with vigor and maybe they don't even realize the repercussions. If they don't do some preparation of where I can get to, what my goal is, what I need to negotiate, what I can't lose, what on the other hand I need to bring home, it's going to sparkle because you're not going to give me that free discount either. You're going to try to defend your camp and you're not going to give me that discount, which is not going to get us anywhere, and then it sparks.
Martin Hurych
Now it occurred to me that when we see each other here again, it might be worthwhile to discuss, among other things, what the negotiation between buying and trading looks like when there are two ladies on the same side. In the tech bubble that I have, it's 90% guy on guy and then it really sparks.
Lenka Antonová
I think this may be the case among women as well, and this is true for the whole of the working world in general. Women bring a lot of emotion, and not just to business meetings, and there's a lot of sparks sometimes. Often there is an unpleasant atmosphere and competition. I'm sure it's interesting, but I don't think I have an easier time negotiating as a woman if I have a man as a counterpart, I don't think so.
Martin Hurych
That's not what I meant at all. Anyway, thank you so much for the insight on the other side and I wish you success not only in your shopping but also in your creativity.
Lenka Antonová
Thank you so much for having me, it was great to be here with you.
Martin Hurych
I hope that in those few dozen minutes we showed something new again, that we showed the real dealers how to buy with grace in a way that we all enjoy. This really isn't about fighting and it shouldn't be. If Lenka and I here have given you an idea, an inspiration, something you want to change, something to change how you buy in your business, we've done our job well. If you didn't hit subscribe or share right at the beginning of this episode, I'm going to ask you to do it again. I'm sure it will make me happy and help me continue to promote Ignition across all the algorithms on all the social networks where you can see or listen to us. Be sure to check out my website, www.martinhurych.com/zazeh, where there's already a bonus at this point where a lot of the things that Lenka and I have been talking about here are already there, including the aforementioned nuts and the Dutch mill. All I can do is keep my fingers crossed and wish you success, thanks.